Rocketry Chat Forum

RocketryChat Logo & Icon Yellow TRans BG 1200 x700

Forum

Tip-To-Tip Reinforc...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Tip-To-Tip Reinforcing on your Fin Can


LenForsyth
(@lenforsyth)
Member Admin Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 62
Topic starter  

Amazing Fin Flutter Video

U.S.S. Bakula, with onboard video, took off and captured fantastic footage showing fin flutter

Hydra with Fin Flutter.

Is it just an Optical illusion, or is this a real-world issue for high-powered rockets? Here is another more recent video.

After viewing the above two videos, you may wonder if a fin's tip-to-tip fibreglassing can be worth the extra weight it adds to the tail end of a rocket airframe.

If you are still wondering if the tip-to-tip fiberglassing of a fin can is worth the extra weight it adds to the tail end of a rocket airframe, it's important to consider several key aspects: the benefits and drawbacks of tip-to-tip fiberglassing, the impact of additional weight on rocket performance, and the overall effect on the rocket's stability, durability, and flight characteristics.

Let's break down the main points and structure to cover these areas effectively.

Introduction

The concept of tip-to-tip fiberglassing in rocketry emphasises its role in reinforcing the fin can area of a rocket airframe.

The common dilemma rocket engineers and hobbyists face is balancing the structural benefits of additional reinforcement against the potential performance penalties due to increased weight.

The structure and function of a rocket's fin can detail how fins contribute to the stability and control of the rocket during flight. The purpose and process of fiberglassing in rocketry focuses on the tip-to-tip technique to enhance fin durability and resistance to aerodynamic forces.

The Case for Tip-to-Tip Fiberglassing

The benefits of tip-to-tip fiberglassing include improved structural integrity, enhanced durability against high-speed aerodynamic forces, and increased resistance to damage from impact or rough landings.

Examples from amateur and professional rocketry illustrate situations where tip-to-tip fiberglassing has significantly contributed to mission success or the longevity of the rocket.

The Weight Penalty Consideration - Adding weight at the wrong end of the rocket.

The impact of the extra weight added by tip-to-tip fiberglassing on the rocket's performance, focusing on aspects such as thrust-to-weight ratio, maximum altitude, and acceleration.

The trade-offs involved adding weight to the tail end of the rocket, including potential shifts in the centre of gravity and changes in flight stability and maneuverability.

Engineering Perspectives and Solutions

Explore engineering perspectives on optimizing rocket design to mitigate the negative effects of additional weight, such as using lightweight materials elsewhere in the rocket or adjusting to fin design and placement.

Highlight innovative techniques and materials in fiberglassing and rocket construction that help balance weight and durability.

Case Studies and Practical Examples

Present brief case studies or examples where tip-to-tip fiberglassing was successfully implemented, focusing on the outcomes in terms of performance versus durability trade-offs.

Conclusion

Summarize the key points throughout the article, emphasizing the importance of careful consideration and planning when implementing tip-to-tip fiberglassing on a rocket's fin can.

It is your rocket, so weigh the benefits of increased durability and structural integrity against the potential drawbacks of added weight based on their rocket projects' specific needs and goals.

In My Opinion

After all, remember, it is just a rocket launch - what could possibly go wrong.

Yes, tip-to-tip fiberglassing of a fin can significantly reduce fin flutter in rockets. Fin flutter is a phenomenon that occurs when the aerodynamic forces acting on the fins during high-speed flight cause them to oscillate or "flutter." This flutter can lead to structural failure of the fins or even the entire rocket if severe enough. The fin flutter risk increases with the rocket's speed and the fin's thinness and flexibility.

Tip-to-tip fiberglassing enhances the stiffness and structural integrity of the fin can area, which includes the fins and the section of the rocket body to which they are attached.

By reinforcing this area with fibreglass or some other composite material (i.e. carbon as shown above), especially over the entire span from the tip of one fin across to the tips of the other fins, the fins become much more resistant to the bending and torsional forces that can induce flutter. The added rigidity helps ensure that the fins remain stable and fixed relative to the airflow, thus significantly reducing the likelihood of fin flutter.

The process involves applying fibreglass cloth and resin over the fins and the body of the rocket where the fins are attached, creating a solid, continuous surface that distributes aerodynamic loads more evenly across the fin structure. This reduces flutter and protects the fins and rocket body from damage caused by high-speed flight conditions, impact, and heat.

While the benefits of reduced fin flutter and increased durability are clear, it's important to carefully consider the weight trade-off, as discussed earlier. The added weight from the fibreglass and resin can affect the rocket's performance, particularly its thrust-to-weight ratio and altitude capability. However, for high-power rockets and those designed to reach high speeds where fin flutter is a concern, the trade-off is often considered worthwhile to ensure flight stability and safety.

Throughout the article, it would be beneficial to include interviews with rocketry experts, graphical data illustrating the impact of weight on rocket performance, and comparative analyses of rockets with and without tip-to-tip fiberglassing. Additionally, incorporating technical details about the fiberglassing process and material selection can provide valuable insights for readers looking to make informed decisions about their rocket designs.

Anyway, I'd love to get your thoughts - before my fins fall off.


   
Matt reacted
Quote
BrendanHawkins
(@brendanhawkins)
Eminent Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 28
 

I'm a fan of tip to tip reinforcement too, especially if I want to give the fins an improved chance of surviving a faster/harder landing. For a Level 2 cert flight, I would encourage this as it's likely to be flown at higher speeds during boost and you want to make sure you don't lose a fin to flutter or on the landing which would be a fail on the L2 cert flight.

Adding tip to tip adds stiffness, which it a good technique for helping to both change the point at which flutter starts and to improve the chances of surviving flutter, not necessarily avoiding it.

The flutter is induced by vortex shedding happening at a frequency that happens to coincide with the natural resonance frequency of the fins, and when the two match, harmonic resonance takes place and the vibration/motion escalates out of control until something changes - vortex shedding rate, speed, or structural failure. Google the Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse for one good example.

Another anti-flutter technique I use is to profile the fins so that they are thicker at the root and have an even taper towards the tip. As seen in these two videos, both rockets had flat plate, single thickness fins from root to tip, and they only began to flutter at a designated speed, then stopped when the rockets slowed. Adding a taper in the fin thickness from root to tip changes the cross section and also changes its harmonic frequency so that the vortex-shedding induced vibrations can't find an easy resonance frequency over any significant surface area to cause a problem.

AMRS Level 1 - PML Callisto May19 H100W 3600ft
AMRS/Tripoli Level 2 - 3" AGM33 Pike Aug20 J270W 3300ft
First Airstart - Thales Starstreak Mar22
First Cluster - Banana Republican Jun23 3xE20 1856ft
Impulse tally - 11,019NS since May 2019


   
ReplyQuote
LenForsyth
(@lenforsyth)
Member Admin Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 62
Topic starter  

Amazing Bridge Flutter Video - The worst case of fin flutter ever recorded.

😀

The funny part was that this bridge did not even seem to be going that fast!

🙄


   
ReplyQuote
Drew Hamilton
(@andrewhamilton)
Active Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 17
 

Personally I've come to the conclusion that fin flutter is a symptom of inadequate fin thickness or stock. While you can correct this with t2t, it's not ideal as you're adding layers of FG or CF to the airframe as well as the fin. 
At the last Thunda both of the MD rockets I flew had fins held on solely by fillets, no t2t. They both survived boost (at least the fins); the 54mm hit Mach 2.6, the 75mm just tickled Mach 3 before the airframe buckled. But the fins stayed on throughout the boost/up bit.
From my perspective, t2t is most useful to keep your fins on when your rocket hits the ground. The 54mm MD I flew at Thunda was fine until it touched down. It landed fin first, on an off angle, and that was enough force to pop the fin off. This can bee seen in the attached image.


   
Matt reacted
ReplyQuote
Matt
 Matt
(@crom)
Member Admin
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 53
 

@andrewhamilton I seem to remember cryoscum posting about the importance of the quality / smoothness of the paint job (he was using 2 Pac on Mad Max flying an N5800 I think) on the success of the flight when getting up to speeds around Mach 3+. What are your thoughts?

Tripoli #13468 L3
Tripoli Prefect #131
QRS President


   
ReplyQuote
Drew Hamilton
(@andrewhamilton)
Active Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 17
 

@crom he was right, and still is. Surface finish is critical for locking in both speed and altitude gains on high velocity flights, especially at low altitudes.
I don't know if you recall, but at the first THUNDA I flew a M2250 in a MD rocket that I had painted with rattle can paint. It only hit Mach 2.3 and was an ABSOLUTE MESS post flight. 

Before

After

After

And you're also correct that Nic moved to 2 pack ISO free automotive paint, and was successful in pushing those airframes to M3.5+ without significant damage to the paint job. At worst there was a bit of pitting and pin-holing in the finish, but nothing like the high drag caked runs that you can see from my significantly slower flight.

It's probably also worth mentioning that 2 pack paints are now fairly readily available in 2 part rattle cans. Whilst expensive, it's a lot cheaper than a spray gun + compressor for small work. But it's worth mentioning that PPE for these things is required.

2k in a can


   
ReplyQuote
Matt
 Matt
(@crom)
Member Admin
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 53
 

Thanks Drew. Your pictures don't show up on my computer... What was the advantage to wrapping the leading edge of his fins in (I think) aluminum? Reduced scouring / heating due to friction?

Tripoli #13468 L3
Tripoli Prefect #131
QRS President


   
ReplyQuote
Drew Hamilton
(@andrewhamilton)
Active Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 17
 

@crom sorry about the pics. Can we not attach more than one file per post?

Posted by: @crom

What was the advantage to wrapping the leading edge of his fins in (I think) aluminum?

wrapping the LE's in stainless was a decision he made to mitigate heating damage


   
ReplyQuote
Drew Hamilton
(@andrewhamilton)
Active Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 17
 

After


   
ReplyQuote
Drew Hamilton
(@andrewhamilton)
Active Member Club Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 17
 

After (zoomed in)


   
ReplyQuote
Share:
Scroll to Top